Time to move on....

[kirkalbers]

I have taken a bit of notice of some results of the local area riders and in an effort to improve the overall state of racing in the Ohio area, I have to point out one Jim Matson of the Central Ohio Bicycle Club.

From my quick calculations it appears that Mr. Matson has been riding quite well this year, maybe a bit too well for his category, 61 pts just this year, with that he earns a automatic upgrade!

Congrats Jim!


- KA

[CitrusSpeed]

Hey Kirk - Is there really an "automatic upgrade"? I mean, if race directors never submit results how does the USCF know who's doing what in terms of local racing? Sure, we can sit around and point out those that are point "collectors" (I have another word for that but it's not suitable for public display), but as long as the USCF doesn't know about it aren't we just preaching to the choir? I doubt Mike Hanley watches all the local race results like a hawk, he's got other things to do.

Kevin

BTW ...

In case people need a refresher...

USCF Road Upgrades
Guidelines and Notes by Category:
5-4: Experience in 10 mass start races that meet the criteria in the table below (qualifying races).
Local Associations may also establish policies where upgrade credit is given for taking a sanctioned rider education clinic.
4-3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25 qualifying races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes, or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade
3-2: 25 points in any 12-month period
60 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade
2-1: 30 points in any 12-month period
60 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade

* For points earned in stage races, GC and stage places both count for points, but only up to a maximum of 20 points from a single stage race.

[kirkalbers]

Hey Kirk - Is there really an "automatic upgrade"? I mean, if race directors never submit results how does the USCF know who's doing what in terms of local racing? Sure, we can sit around and point out those that are point "collectors" (I have another word for that but it's not suitable for public display), but as long as the USCF doesn't know about it aren't we just preaching to the choir? I doubt Mike Hanley watches all the local race results like a hawk, he's got other things to do.

Kevin

Doesn't it seem a bit unfair that it appears the same guys are finishing top five in the Cat 3/4 races? How are guys ever going to get a chance to move up in category when it's the same guys scoring points? It used to be a point of pride for guys to move up as soon as they had enough points.

I wouldn't know whether anyone ever gets autoupgraded, for what it worth, I moved up as soon as I had enough points.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't expect any governing body to ever "take the bull by the horns". You make a good point about promoters submitting results, maybe everyone can stop claiming fame by those hokey USA Cycling rankings.



- KA

[andy-johnson]

It seems like theres a trickle down effect that starts at the cat 3 level and goes down to the 5s/citizen.

A funny story, I lined up for the cat 5 yellow springs road race this spring and greeted a few riders around me. then asked "so, how many races have you done?" Guy to my left "like 20-25, not really sure." Guy to my right "yeah, I lost count around 20 or so..." A cat 5 race. both riders where seasoned experienced riders that finished strong.

But it gets better... You know its bad when you line up for a cat 5 race and the promoter says to two guys on his team "You guys aren't seriously racing the 5s are you?" they did.

[ColumbusCycling]

It seems like theres a trickle down effect that starts at the cat 3 level and goes down to the 5s/citizen.

A funny story, I lined up for the cat 5 yellow springs road race this spring and greeted a few riders around me. then asked "so, how many races have you done?" Guy to my left "like 20-25, not really sure." Guy to my right "yeah, I lost count around 20 or so..." A cat 5 race. both riders where seasoned experienced riders that finished strong.

But it gets better... You know its bad when you line up for a cat 5 race and the promoter says to two guys on his team "You guys aren't seriously racing the 5s are you?" they did.

I raced against a guy on Tri-Tech's team (when they used to have one), during one of my first races. It was a crit and it was tough. Well, the Tri-Tech guy pulled away on either the first or second lap and basically stayed away the rest of the race. I, and the rest of the field, were amazed at the strength of this "cat 5." During the race, the announcer found the guy's wife and asked her about his racing experience. She said that she wasn't sure how many races he had done but that he "had been racing for about 15 years."

I didn't feel so bad after that. It was funny she said that exactly as the field was passing the announcer, so the majority of us could hear her. If there's a "sandbagger lifetime achievement award" that guy shoud get it. Too bad I don't remember his name.

Nick

[jszymczak]

But it gets better... You know its bad when you line up for a cat 5 race and the promoter says to two guys on his team "You guys aren't seriously racing the 5s are you?" they did.

Yep, it seemed like those guys were blocking for that Savage Hill rider, because when he got caught they dropped back with him. The one guy seemed like he was a promoter or something, because he later asked me if I wanted to marshall one of the corners for the 2-1-Pro race. Hmmmm.

[kirkalbers]

But it gets better... You know its bad when you line up for a cat 5 race and the promoter says to two guys on his team "You guys aren't seriously racing the 5s are you?" they did.

Yep, it seemed like those guys were blocking for that Savage Hill rider, because when he got caught they dropped back with him. The one guy seemed like he was a promoter or something, because he later asked me if I wanted to marshall one of the corners for the 2-1-Pro race. Hmmmm.

Ah, some people has no shame...

Perhaps we should start a new poll, sandbagger of the month?

- KA

[mwalimu]

Perhaps public shame is not the best motivator.

Why not take a proactive approach and speak directly to the individuals involved?

Jim Matson: mailto:cadex_980c@yahoo.com

Mike Hanley: mailto:mikehanley@comcast.net

I'm sure both Jim and Mike would be more responsive to a personal appeal rather than a public lambasting.

-Ryan Rish

[kirkalbers]

Perhaps public shame is not the best motivator.

Why not take a proactive approach and speak directly to the individuals involved?

Jim Matson: mailto:cadex_980c@yahoo.com

Mike Hanley: mailto:mikehanley@comcast.net

I'm sure both Jim and Mike would be more responsive to a personal appeal rather than a public lambasting.

-Ryan Rish

Don't be so sensitive Francis. The original post was a gentle nudge, hardly a lambasting. The point of the original post was to improve the racing in the area and have riders strive for something (therefore should be voluntarily moving up in category).

BTW, poor form in posting someone's email address.

- KA

[mwalimu]

So then let's go with that thought...how do we improve the racing in the area and motivate racers to voluntarily move up in category? Surely we need to offer more than a KA acknowledgement to convince 3s to move up.

Personally, I'm with you. I always wanted to race against the best guys who showed up that day. For me, doing well in the 3/4s was a hollow result, when I knew there were better guys to race against in the 1-3s. So I upgraded as quickly as I could. I'm of the opinion that racing over your head is the best way to improve. These days I'm mostly pack fill, but I still have fun throwing down, getting kicked in the teeth and making the pros chuckle.

In terms of spam, yea you're right...bad form.

In terms of communication, knowing Jim and Mike I'm confident they both would prefer a personal message over a public post.

Admitting my perception is not everyone's reality,
-Francis

[kirkalbers]

Evening the distribution of the fields with some upgrades is a start in the right direction.

I also believe there needs to be a concerted effort, perhaps statewide, to promote races in a more consistent and fair(?) manner. Structure could provide an avenue to bring back racers who have been alienated over the years.

Am I the only one who noticed there wasn't a single rider in the 1/2 races in Grandview from Cincinnati, Toledo, Indianapolis? A state association or even a liason appointed by the promoters of the state could go a long way in bringing back those riders. I truly believe if the numbers come up, the excitement about racing will in the area will return and that could have a tremendous effect on a numbers of things, mainly the *real* interest of the media/sponsors.

I'm full of ideas and have some time to help implement them, now let's see if anyone is listening.

By the way, kudos to all involved in the OSU Tuesday training races, it's been a success to date and the format is something which could interest (and sustain that interest) for quite a few cyclists in the future.


Regards,

Kirk

[mwalimu]

Again, I would refer anyone with the time and interest to contact Mike Hanley, USCF Regional Rep. Mike has been ready and willing to establish a state association for as long as I can remember. I believe there are even USCF resource available for state associations.

Everytime the conversation has been started it has gone no where because we haven't had sustained leadership and athlete/promoter buy-in.

Give Mike a call and get the ball rolling for next year.

-Ryan

[CitrusSpeed]

We seem to have this conversation once a year on this forum. It all comes back to a state association of some kind yet none of us who have the idea have the time to lead it, but I'm sure if given the opportunity would contribute on some level. Unfortunately, that's what it comes down to, someone has to have the time and dedication to put into it and rarely anyone wants to step up and put more on their plate (including me) yet we all think it's needed. The conversation came a little later last year, but still...no one has the time to dedicate to doing this thing and if they did and were able to pull it off, they'd be a hero in the relm of Ohio cycling. The original thread last that got started the conversation which led to
this poll...then it died again.

BTW - Kirk the Buckeye Cycling Crit Series IS NOT the OSU cycling team, but thanks for the props! We're a totally separate group from the OSU team, but we have members on our team that are part of the OSU team during the collegiate season. I graduated from OSU 8yrs ago and was never associated with their cycling team We're trying hard to establish our team as a totally separate entity, but the relationship with OSU exists and for good reason. Contrary to popular belief, we're not the OSU team in different kits, in fact, not even 1/2 of our members are current OSU team members. You can read about who we are here:

http://www.buckeyecycling.com/about.aspx

Kevin

[mwalimu]

In an e-mail, Mike Hanley indicated that a meeting will be held in the near future to establish a state association. Hopefully, we can find the leadership and buy-in that has been missing in the past.

Stay tuned,
-Ryan

[kirkalbers]

We seem to have this conversation once a year on this forum. It all comes back to a state association of some kind yet none of us who have the idea have the time to lead it, but I'm sure if given the opportunity would contribute on some level. Unfortunately, that's what it comes down to, someone has to have the time and dedication to put into it and rarely anyone wants to step up and put more on their plate (including me) yet we all think it's needed. The conversation came a little later last year, but still...no one has the time to dedicate to doing this thing and if they did and were able to pull it off, they'd be a hero in the relm of Ohio cycling. The original thread last that got started the conversation which led to
this poll...then it died again.

BTW - Kirk the Buckeye Cycling Crit Series IS NOT the OSU cycling team, but thanks for the props! We're a totally separate group from the OSU team, but we have members on our team that are part of the OSU team during the collegiate season. I graduated from OSU 8yrs ago and was never associated with their cycling team We're trying hard to establish our team as a totally separate entity, but the relationship with OSU exists and for good reason. Contrary to popular belief, we're not the OSU team in different kits, in fact, not even 1/2 of our members are current OSU team members. You can read about who we are here:

http://www.buckeyecycling.com/about.aspx

Kevin

Fair enough, but you have to admit the name is a bit confusing and the races are being held at OSU.

- KA